Followers

Facebook Badge

Athena Smith's Facebook profile

Monday, October 4

BLOG 4: llegal Immigration: Amnesty or deportation?

Illegal immigration continues to be a controversial and divisive topic, not only in the United States, but throughout the world. The debate over how to deal with the problem has focused on either legalization or deportation. The supporters of legalization point to the fact that borders are almost impossible to patrol due to their size and the existence of alternative routes whereas the native citizens embrace illegal immigration when it suits their needs. If you haven’t employed an illegal, probably you know someone who has. Furthermore they assert that amnesty is the right path. For who among us will condone the forceful separation of parents and children? Finally they point to the fact that immigrants, when they become legal, they contribute to our taxes.


The other side insists that illegal immigrants draw on the welfare system while they have broken the law and they should be deported. Of course that may happen only after they get arrested. Which may be a challenge given that in the US we have close to 11 million illegals and in France from 200,000-400,000.

What do you think the policy should be in your country? Legalization/Amnesty or deportation?.

Please answer by Sunday October 10.

71 comments:

Lauren said...

I have always been torn on the immigration argument. I can see why some say it should be illegal and we should deport them but I can also see why some want it legalized. I have always viewed everyone in America as being an immigrant, besides the Native Americans. I know that my great grandparents came to Ellis Island from Germany. And I am sure that if you trace your family history, that at one point or another part of your family came from somewhere else. We are notorious for being the “melting pot” country. I just don’t think that it is fair to tell someone that no they can not live here, but we will still import your products. It just doesn’t make sense to me. Now for the other side-I can see why people would want to immigration to become illegal and to deport illegal immigrants because of welfare system issues and them taking advantage of other programs. I know that in my family, a lot argue the fact that they come over here and take jobs and then instead of putting that money back into our economy, they ship it over to their family and there by “robbing” us. I always point out that the jobs they usually do take are very low and jobs that Americans themselves would rather starve then take. Which usually opens up a can of worms and suddenly I have started a very heated argument over our once pleasant Thanksgiving dinner. :)

atomicsmash26 said...

I will get to the heart of the issue. Because of United States Imperialism, which is basically the squandering of a country's resources and their people, they can't live in a "functioning" country. The World Bank and IMF impose their will on that country, as does the United States. I believe it is our foreign policy that needs to change, and that is the debate we should be having, not whether we should allow illegal immigrants in this country. Let's make sure they don't need to come here, that they have a functioning government and economy. The basics everyone, the basics.

Bryon Bewsher said...

rules are rules. We can argue all that we want on what they should and should not be, but there are rules set by governments that say that as a citizan of this country (United States) you have to pay taxes. Period. If you do not pay taxes, then you will pay the consequences. I do agree that countries should make it so that their people do not want to leave, but that should be their own item to deal with. The United States sticks its nose in other country's business too much. Granted, many of them call on the U.S. for help in making it better, but once we help (in our own beautiful destructive way), we are told that after losing ten thousand lives that we are pulling out. if our intention is to make it better inother countries for people to stop coming here illegally, then should we listen to the governments of other countries? I think we should deport illegal immigrants as the laws say.

Athena Smith said...

I received the following in my email a few hours ago:


Statement by HACU President and CEO Antonio R. Flores on Comprehensive Immigration Reform

HACU commends Senators Menendez and Leahy for introducing last Wednesday evening the Comprehensive Immigration Reform Act of 2010 (CIR), which incorporates the provisions of the DREAM Act to create pathways to legal status for young people who immigrated as undocumented children with their parents. Under this legislation, attending higher education is a main route for these young “Dreamers” to regularize their status. CIR includes border enforcement, interior enforcement, worksite enforcement, enhancements to the legal immigration system, and legalization of some undocumented individuals that would need to meet a series of stringent criteria, such as those required by the DREAM Act.

As a leading education association, HACU supports CIR. We strongly believe that DREAM Act provisions must be upheld to allow undocumented students the opportunity to continue their education and make their contribution to the future prosperity of America. Recently, HACU led efforts to form the Act on the Dream Coalition to push for the swift passage of the DREAM Act. Whether in the CIR legislation or as stand-alone legislation, the DREAM Act should be passed by Congress as priority legislation after the November elections. Delaying the DREAM Act any further would hinder the tapping of the talent pool represented by the young Dreamers that our country has invested greatly in educating up to this point. It would be counterproductive for America to lose this major national investment.

In the weeks ahead, HACU will be closely examining the new CIR legislation and working with members of Congress on both sides of the aisle, as well as with the Administration, to assure passage of a comprehensive reform bill that includes the DREAM Act and protects the rights of all involved or of the DREAM act legislation by itself.

Maéva said...

About France, I think illegal imigration is a problem for our country because we can't recive every people in our teritory, and this problem cause illegal work,human trafic...But we can't send all illegal worker back to their countries because their countries can be at war, can be very dangerous for them and I think we can't play with people's lives under the pretext that it is a problem on our society, we should deal individually with every person who is in this situation and act in consequence. this question is of political order and our gouvernement isn't currently capable in this domain !!! we should respect international convention on human rights.

jgoran01 said...

The immigration is an issue which gets many countries these days, and if everybody has an personal opinion, nobody can express freely his thoughts : you may be considered as racist or extremist.

Although the sways in the crowd have always existed, we cannot deny that these last years it has took a bigger scale!

The economic conditions and the living conditions being too different from a country to another, many try to avoid this poverty and has to redo their lives somewhere else.
But this issue brings stull too much discord here!!

Nico said...

Immigration is a very sensitive problem in our society. It's very difficult to find the solution of this problem. My opinion about this subject is that we should find a compromise for immigrants. In France certainly immigrants don't respect our country and our culture but it's not a good reason to deport them because for most of immigrants, they have the French nationality so it must be considered as French people so it's belong to them to do efforts to integrate the country where they go. One of solution is to resolve poverty in the country people come from but it's a very big problem. We have a chance to live in a country as France so we must help other people who is in detress but we can't welcome all people. Immigrants shoul'd like the country who they go and find a work and bring something to France and for that the French gouvernement must give good living condition to immigrants.

Romain said...

I think that the State should help people who are already in the country. Instead of giving accommodations and other sort of helps to the last necomers, I think that we should do first things first. And that the State should force the French who are unemployed to do the works that immigrants do.

Maëlle said...

In France there are the same problems of immigration.
It is a topical issue, many camps of Roms were expelled which caused many reactions.
Roms are persons who beg most of the time in the street.They are immigrants , they go to France and stay in their cabins/trailers that they are making themselves.
Some people revolted, and find unacceptable that people are expelled of a country.
Others, thinks that it is a good thing. People have divided opinions.

simon said...

I think that is hypocrite to deport them because they do most of the difficult jobs. If the gouvernment don’t want them to settle in a country, they must rather help the country where immigrants are from to solve their problems so that they don’t have to go to another country.

Nicolas said...

I think that laws must be respected by all. In France, illegal immigration is forbidden because you’re not native of our country. To became a French citizen, you must live in France for 5 years or be born here. You must deserve to have your place in the system. The other people don’t bring anything to the State because they don’t work, they don’t develop the economy, etc....
I’m not for their deportation immediatly because if they go to a rich country, it’s to flee from their country and to leave the poverty which is associated to it. I think it will be more realistic to help their society to develop because the real problem is that they don’t have a good living conditions.

morgan said...

I think everyone should have the right to live wherever they want but not illegally.
Immigrants come to France because their countries are too poor, for this reason we should change the way we deal with illegal immigration as other countries do to reduce immigration.
Immigration is not negative if immigrants come to work and not to take advantage of the system because many immigrants live in France without any legal papers.

Eric said...

I think illegal imigration should not exist If an immigrant participates in the life of the society by working there, in my opinion, these immigrants deserve their place more than a native French citizen who doesn't work and who takes advantage of the system.

geoffrey said...

i think that immigration is not a problem in our country , but need to be regularly and precisely controlled because there are much laxity( some people take advantages of social subsidies without making anything) so there is a high employment rate. You should accept that immigrants could find a work

Mickael said...

First of all, I’m not against illegal immigration. Sometimes some people or families are obliged to flee their country because of political pressure or a problem with the State. So we must welcome these immigrants even if they enter our country illegally. There is no problem to welcome an immigrant from the moment he fits well in the society in which he or she is located.

Mehdi said...

I think that before we send them back to their country, we should put ourselves in their situation to understand, and help them better. Because if some immigrants come in our country to be less poor because our country is richer than theirs and without tring to find a honest work, this is wrong. But many other immigrants who come in with the intention to improve their situation with a honest work, They deserve our help.

Maxime said...

Hello!

Is illegal immigration more present in the US than in France ?
To us (in Grenoble) there is a little of it, but it is especially periodically when they settle down and leave, far or not sometimes.
Approximately a month ago, the president and the State set up , apparently, new laws concerning the "immigrants", in particular the travellers. For example, not very far from Grenoble, along one field which is by the freeway , there was a quite small community who, even not 2 days after this law, were evicted by “CRS” (riot squad), to destroy their “cabins”.
I don’t know if it’s a good thing or not, but according to rumours (which seems to me possible) this small expelled group would have apparently wanted to abduct children / teenagers to make then a traffic of vital organs. ...... is not really joyful ! Certainly they are only rumours...hopefully!…..but after these facts....we can think that the best for us, anf for our children, is that they are to send back "somewhere else"!!

mathieu said...

I think that illegal immigration is bad and that it would be necessary to make something so that it decreases, better, that it stops! But I also think that to send them back with such a violence is not a thing to do! We shall have to send them back to the country and try to understand why they left there and maybe do something to help them, better, help them in their own country. For those who immigrated legally, we shall help them obtain legal papers and nationality instead of doing everything we can to prevent them from to get them.

aurelien said...

The problem with illegal immigration is that we don’t know why they come, the danger is terrorists entering the country. They have to deport them because it is not normal towards the persons who arrive legally in the country. Nevertheless the deportation is not specially the good solution because most of immigrants avoid their country because their country is at war.

atomicsmash26 said...

To answer a question, yes, immigration seems to be a major problem in the US. The problem is made worse by our media, who do nothing but try to scare everyone into what the government wants. As I said, we need to ensure that other countries have a functioning government and economy so that they won't have to immigrate somewhere. That is the simplest thing to do. It is the RIGHT thing to do. No one wants to leave the country they're from. They do it because the situation is disasterous.

Anthony said...

It really isn’t much of a choice to me to say we should send them back. Them being over here illegally is obviously illegal. There are proper channels you can go through if you desire American citizenship. Trying to get around that and get over here anyway is a crime. I don’t me to come off as being harsh, that’s just my view of it. As a solution to this problem I don’t see giving all the illegal immigrants already here citizenship. That does not make any sense to me to handle it like that. I mean lets say that is what happened and the country is illegal immigrant free for a short time. Next time more start coming over should we give them citizenship too? It doesn’t seem to be a well thought out solution to me. I don’t really see a good solution to this problem. Stopping people from crossing the border would be a large ordeal in both resources and manpower. It is the same thing for rounding up the illegal immigrants already here and sending them back. However, at the same time granting citizenship to the ones already here does not do anything to fix the problem. So I’m lost as to what an actually solution to this problem might be. But at the same time I don’t think the one’s that politicians have suggested will do anything to really address the situation. Again sorry if I sounded harsh during any of that.

Anthony said...

In response to what Jgoran01 said. I think you have a good point about how it’s difficult to express a personal opinion on this matter without people thinking badly of you. It really is a tough situation because it makes it that much harder to talk about it if everybody is being super careful not to say the slightest thing that could be considered racist or extremist.

shoegirl1010 said...

As the child of immigrants I can agree with my classmates that this is a very sensitive subject. I have mixed feelings about this subject myself so I will answer it in two parts:

Many illegal aliens come to this country in search of a better life for their children. They will take menial jobs for little pay like picking fruit or mowing our yards. The illegal immigrants that come to this country with this objective usually get temporary id numbers, which requires them to pay taxes and contribute to our society.

Then there are the other illegal immigrants who come here to earn a fast buck and engage in illegal activities. These people increase our crime rates and severely effect society.
The reason I make the distinction between the two is because all the illegal aliens are entitled to healthcare, public education and government assistance. This is the reason why I am torn in this issue. On one hand you have immigrants who contribute to society, perform jobs at low pay which Americans wont do, and pay taxes. On the other hand you have the miscreants who contribute to the rapid growing crime rate.
What I will say is that our immigration laws do need to be changed. We need to be able to find some sort of solution that doesn't hurt the illegal immigrants who contribute positively to society. I completely disagree with the Arizona laws recently instituted. I am hoping that this country doesn't consort to that type of racial profiling.

Jayme said...

I am in the middle on this topic. On one side I feel that a countries law for entry and citizenship should be honored and respected. Then on the emotional side, if you look at why the person has left their home and risked everything to be somewhere against all odds you have to wonder if the laws should be so black and white.

As a people were are protective of what we own and what we will give another person. We are driven with an instinct to survive. So when I see laws which send people away, I have to wonder what personal threat illegal citizens are posing on personal survival. Is it loss of possible jobs, higher costs on services or is it a lack of humanity for other situations around the world?

In a situation where what you give to the society provides for all, taxes and non-criminal activity are very important. Your taxes help provide schools, take care of parks, and enforce law and personal protection in the form of police. Going back to the previous discussion topic, healthcare, for anyone who is not able to work, due to citizenship, and therefore cannot pay for doctor’s visits and medicine will create extra expenditures on nations as a whole. These extra costs will be covered in the overall charges to everyone.

So I guess what I am finally looking at is what is the total cost I am willing to endure for a more humanitarian enforcement of citizenship within my country?

Jayme said...

Maëlle, we have had a similar situation in Saint Petersburg Florida. We have a large population of homeless people, who have formed a community. This area has been named tent city. There was a lot of controversy surrounding the very existence of such a place. In 2007 there was an event where the local government went into this area and destroyed and removed the tents, which were homes to many families. I do not have the exact data on if the residents were all legal citizens or not, but one can assume that if these were legal citizens, it could happen to illegal citizens.

LaSandra67 said...

To tell you the truth, I dont know. I know the present immigrants are taking the jobs that we would not dare take. For that, they have my respect. I am tired of people accusing them of abusing the healthcare system. So they are the new non-whites to blame? Wow! Is it not true that those that apply for welfare are not immigrants? Then the ones who complain about them taking the jobs I can tell you this...There is a position awaiting you in Plant City or Wimauma as a tomato picker or you can work as a made at one of Florida's finest hotels. Just refine the immigration laws to address the concerns without breqaking up families. This paranoia has to stop.o

Lauren said...

In regards to what shoegirl1010 said, I couldn't agree with you more. I think a lot of people forget that there are two different types of illegal immigrants-those that strive to make a life for themselves and those that are here for nothing more than trouble.

Chantal said...

I have to say I can see both sides so I am not really for or against immigration. I work with a man who is from Africa, he is married and a father but cannot bring his wife and child here because of our laws. I think this is really unfair. So I do not condone the separation of families. And he is legally here. I can also see how some come here for better opportunities in life but if the goal is to live off the welfare system then that is not acceptable.
I do think it it is impossible to control our borders, I don't know what other sytem that can be put in place to allow total control. I do feel there would be less unemployment if there were no illegal immigrants.It would definitely free up more job opportunities for our citzens because many immigrants are being paid less wage and under the table for their work.this leads me to the taxes, I do feel if they work they should pay taxes, that is the American Way, and to live in this country you have to abide by the rules just like the rest of us.

Athena Smith said...

Illegal immigrants can get only emergency care (through Medicaid, the federal-state program for the poor and people with disabilities.) But they don't get non-emergency care unless they pay. They are not eligible for most other public benefits.

Data on health care costs for illegal immigrants are not available because hospitals don't ask about patients' legal status. What ever numbers are circulating out there are wild estimates.

I searched the topic a bit before possting and I am taken aback by the number of hate sites. So please if you do research make sure your site is a reputable source.

Athena Smith said...

By the way, I don't know if you read the story on Lou Dobbs. It turns out he had been hiring illegal immigrants. The anti-immigrant warrior himself!

atomicsmash26 said...

With all due respect Professor Smith, that story on Lou Dobbs is nothing more than PROPOGANDA! Let's face it, he speaks for the Tea Party and believes in the Constitution. And if anyone did any real research into the story, they would find that the undocumented workers were employed by the company Lou Dobbs hired, not by Lou Dobbs himself. Furthermore, the ONLY source for the information is one magazine!

Liz A. said...

I am able to understand both sides of the argument. I believe I am more in the middle about it. I believe that there is a better solution than just legalization of any illegal immigrants in the country and deportation. I understand the welfare situation, but I find it unlikely that most illegal immigrants are on welfare. I say this because I am sure that they do not want to be discovered. I believe that a better solution for the situation is to revise the immigration system into the country. Most likely there are so many immigrants because it is so very difficult to become an American citizen. It can take years to become a citizen. If the immigration system was polished up people wouldn't feel like they have to come into the country illegally. As for the illegal immigrants that are already in the country, I believe that we should allow them to stay until their paperwork comes through. Until they become a citizen or deport them if the opposite occurs.

Athena Smith said...

Atomicsmash26
I did not make a political statement. I simply thought it was funny since the story involved Lou Dobbs who is known for his fierce attacks on illegal immigration. Furthermore I have no idea if it is propaganda or not. Time will tell.

To keep things balanced, many politicians from all sides have hired illegal immigrants, either knowingly or through contractors.
See Colin Powell for example.

Junglist said...

I find immigration a very difficult subject to discuss. Many people have become very passionate about the issue. As others have stated I believe illegal is illegal and therefore wrong. Without law, crime, persecution, unfair market practices and despotism are all encouraged. That being said I also think that immigration has become a scapegoat issue. I find that some people are blaming economic and other problems on immigration when in fact illegal immigration doesn’t contribute as much as they think to the problem at hand. When it comes to the economic issues, cheap labor is cheap labor. Any business and most individuals would rather spend less on labor than more it increases your profit and that is what business is about. Is it morally right, maybe not but I don’t think making money is always tied to morality either. Unfortunately for the immigrants I believe these cheap labor type jobs are the easiest ones for them to secure. I think legalizing all the illegal immigrants, though a very humanistic approach would be at most very difficult to accomplish if not impossible. Though I think humans are very enterprising; if someone wants to enter a country they will find a way and we will never be able to keep every out who tries to enter a country illegally. I also believe if you can integrate into society, pay your taxes, and not harm anyone you should be free to live where you want. Should those that are here illegally be deported? My feeling is that if you are breaking the law there should be a penalty, and I do not have a better solution than deportation.

Junglist said...

@ Maxime, these rumors you speak of are very scary. Abduction and trafficking in human organs are quite diabolical. Is this the most commonly held view of these immigrants? I am curious if there are any positives that you or others see to these people being in your country. Do any of them work or make things that are sold at markets or by the side of the road to try and sustain themselves?

yulia8na said...

Its hard to decide on what to do with illegal’s within a country because there are so many decisions to be made, and when one decision is made more problems with that decision arise.

Our country is based on immigrants so cannot be right to no long except immigrants into our country. But I do believe it should be done legally. By legally becoming a citizen and paying taxes it betters the country and more public services can be provided to fix community development.

I’ve heard of instances where individuals come into our country with visas and are given housing and credit and a chance to open their own business but to only go back to their country with the things they purchased with the money that was given to them. That is not fair nor ethically right.

However I do not think deportation is the answer unless they are still unwilling to cooperate with legalities. They obviously came to this country for a reason. It is true there are many illegals going to the hospital and getting treated for their illnesses without paying anything back. Hospitals are obligated to treat patients no mater who they are, with or without a social security number. That is why our health insurance is expensive and taxes are higher every year. There is not enough funding for public education either. If someone wants to participate in making our country better, why not let them.

Chantal said...

I don't agree with the fact that immigrants come here able to do more than the righful citizens already here working hard either. I have worked with people in the past who were working to send money home to their families. Now, their jobs weren't that great, usually in housekeeping or dietary and I don't see a problem with that because it was no different to me than a man going out of the state for work to support his family. But if they are able to get grants for businesses that citizens are not getting that is a problem.

ivanflowers said...

I think that the policy we should adopt in our country should be one of amnesty. I think that illegal immigrants contribute a lot to this country. Most of the people that are here illegally are very hard workers; they do the jobs that no one else wants to do, and at a quality standard. Jobs that most American citizens think are beneath them. Furthermore so many illegal immigrants are in the United States already, why not benefit from it. Our economy could use the boost with the taxes that they would be paying; it would help lower our $1.26 trillion dollar deficit. Illegal immigrants try to stay under the radar because they fear deportation. If I were living in a country where life was unbearable; I would also try to go somewhere where I can make a better life for my family. So I do understand what most illegal immigrants must be thinking when they sneak across the border in pursuit of a better life. Not only would they benefit from living in a country which provides them with greater opportunity, it would also benefit the United States.

yulia8na said...

Illegals do the jobs that no one else wants to do because that is all they can do. Most "important" or "serious" jobs require background checks and drug tests, and in order to do these them a person needs a social security number and documents. Lets not praise our illegal citizens too much.

Nicholas Kieper said...

Illegal immigration in this country is often viewed as a problem. What people seem to forget is that originally, our ancestors were the trespassers on this land. The land that is the United States today was inhabited by the Native Americans and they believed it to be owned by no man. Now people are being deported from this country because they entered illegally seeking a better life than what they were leading in the country that came from. I don’t see how this is any different than what our ancestors did hundreds of years ago.
I believe that although immigrants, both legal and illegal, should study to become a citizen, they should not be deported because they don’t make an effort to attain citizenship. Many of the jobs that are often seen as “beneath most people” are the ones filled by immigrants. They work harder and longer for less money. If these workers were to be deported, I doubt that Americans would want some of the jobs. They will turn their nose up at them leaving no one to do the job.
The US government has discussed the matter of building a permanent wall on the US-Mexico border for many years. They don’t seem to understand that no matter what kind of walls or border patrol either government builds, people will always find a way to enter the United States. We all just need to be a bit more accepting and remember that if two or three hundred years ago, our immigrant ancestors were deported, we may have never become citizens of the United States.

Joel Thomas said...

I believe for the right reasons that immigration should be legal to a certain point. As many have said a lot of people are against the ideal of legalizing immigration because they are afraid that immigrates "are taking jobs away from Americans". However what many do not realize is that the jobs that these illegal immigrants are "taking" are not office positions in classy high-rise buildings, they are taking that jobs that I would venture to say many Americans would not want to work themselves, i.e. working in the fields for twelve hours a day for pay that is well below minimum wage. So honestly I see no problem in letting someone come to the United States to try and make a new living for themselves.
However on the hand, there are some immigrants who come to America and have the idea that they are in for a free ride with the Welfare programs that the United States has to offer. If this were the situation at hand then I would agree with keeping immigration illegal, but I feel that most people that migrate to the United States is not for a free ride, but is to improve their overall lives for themselves and/or their families.

Vee said...

My personal opinion of illegal immigrants is that we should not deport them. We have all of these illegal immigrants in our country because we have such a wonderful country with plenty of opportunities to better your life, and your family’s life. Although I do understand the restraints that illegal immigrants put on our society such as they take our jobs. But in my opinion I have not met many people who would do the type of jobs that these illegal immigrants are doing. I think that we as a whole country should be generous enough to share our land and our freedom with our fellow immigrants because it is the right thing to do. Now if the illegal immigrants break the law, or cause a disruption to our country and society and choose not to follow our way of life, then yes I think that would be safe grounds of deporting them back to their previous country. Illegal immigrants can offer great benefits to our country also. Sometimes we just probably do not even realize it. Immigrants can offer us great opportunities such farms, and better usage of land. I personally feel that it is rude to deport immigrants just because they are not a part of us. I like to sit back and think about how we would feel if we were deported to another country, away from our family and jobs. We would be scared and without a chance of freedom or hope. Immigrants should have a chance in life too, just like we do they are not animals they are still human beings.

Vee said...

yulia8na- if we actually had a good health care system then this would not be an issue. I think that no matter what color you are, where your from, or your background everyone should be able to get free health care with no cost. The government owes us that much.

Aaron said...

I really think that there is not a clear solution for illegal immigration. In reality with the exception of the Native Americans, we are descent of immigrants, so how do we have the right at this point in time to decide who stays or goes.

Unfortunately, people argue that immigrants are taking the jobs from Americans that are draining the welfare system, and are to blame for crime; however, many Americans would rather collect welfare than do the types of jobs currently held by the illegal. The idea that they are draining the welfare system is false because illegal immigrants cannot receive government funding without proper documents. The problem with the welfare system is not the undocumented people but rather the legal ones that know of all the tricks to stay on welfare since it is more profitable for them to receive free benefits than to take a dishwashing job. We need to stop blaming others for our problems and pass reforms that transition people from the couch to whatever job is necessary for society. In most cases, illegal immigrants are too scared to seek any medical treatment in a case of an emergency since they do not have any type of documentation being burden by the fear of being deported. And about blaming those for crime that might be a widespread society problem and not one confined only to the illegal immigrants.

Overall the solution is not to send them back but rather create a uniform system that allows immigrants to be allowed to stay as long as they were a decent contributing citizen that obeyed all laws; furthermore, it would mandate for immigrants staying to learn the language and history of the United States. In the event they did not contribute to society then those subjects should face deportation.

Robert Smith said...

I believe the rules are in place for safety reasons. I personally know tons of illegal immigrants that roaming our streets of Florida. I don't know the media version of illegal immigrants that they try to portray but I do know the worse of the worse. I believe there isn't really much the government can do to stop the unwanted trespassing without spending tons of money to prevent and guard all the coast lines. I do hope so they can put an end to the entry of the immigrants. The guys I know that are here illegally are the most dangerous people I know. They have the attitude of I'm not suppose to be here so I will do anything and if there is trouble I will go back to my country. The islanders I know that are here are serious drug runners and if they do get arrested they hope to get a bond and go back home to their country and come back to the U.S. under another fake name. They are creating major violence and bringing in tons of drugs into our country. The sad thing I personally believe that if we can't stop drugs coming into the United States how can we stop immigrants coming illegally. I know illegal immigrants are illegal and against the law, but it has come to be apart of my daily life in my world. If we can stop immigrants we can stop drugs.

Robert Smith said...

Hello Aaron, I agree with you about there is no clear way we can prevent illegal entry into the U.S. especially since we are immigrants ourselves except the natives. Immigrants have become normal to me. Personally we shouldn't decide who stays and who goes. If someone is here illegally instead of kicking them out there should be a agency who can provide them with proper paper to establish their citizenship. This will cause problems amongst the ones who try to come over the right way and have to waits months on end to even have the opportunity to come over. I think they need to work on stopping drugs from entering before they try to stop immigrants who just want a better life.

Julio Torres said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Julio Torres said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Julio Torres said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Julio Torres said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Julio Torres said...

Illegal immigration is a constant and complex problem, however, it is only natural for anyone who is in a desperate situation to do whatever it takes to achieve what for them is perceived as an opportunity to change their life and support their family. Nonetheless, for those that can escape or survive the border crossing, environmental harsh conditions and the wilderness; life in the dream land is not that dreamy after all. Without any identity documents it is impossible to do anything in the current American society: driving, cashing checks, buying certain products, therefore, these people are left with the necessity of cluster together in order to sustain basic living necessities, as well as, living with the daily stress of facing incarceration and deportation.

In my opinion these illegal immigrants, come to America not to drain from a system from which they are completely alienated from the beginning, due to the nature of their immigration status, but to work very hard in physical intensive labor and other types of jobs that are purposely rejected by Americans because of their very nature. These jobs are not glamorous and many Americans prefer to live out of the social assistance programs than work these types of jobs. In regards to the issue of taxation, it is true that we may not be collecting revenue from the immigrants in the traditional sense; however, I believe that it is compensated by the cheap labor cost that has been provided by these immigrants that are well underpaid, and in many cases exploded by many US risky employers.

Julio Torres said...

With all that been said, I personally do not support illegal immigration, but neither support the current legal US immigration world lottery nor support the US preferential open door immigration policy for some countries. I would envision a legal immigration system for the US, more similar to Canada’s in which people’s background, knowledge and education translate into a immigration index, the higher the index, the higher one’s chances of being selected, this process assure that immigrant would be an asset to society rather than a burden.

In regards to the illegal immigrants all ready here, merit amnesty, could be a feasible solution through a selection criteria that could include work history, background check, tax records, marital status, educational level, etc.

Illegal immigration is a huge problem but in many cases it is the by-product of the on-going politics and economics of the have-it-all and have-nothing-at-all nations. Does anybody have an opinion in regards to the mechanisms that are in place for legal immigration into the US?

Isaiah Merritt-Harris said...

Illegal immigration is a very touchy subject. I believe that immigrants from other countries should follow the policies of the countries they intend to inhabit, and gain citizenship the right way. For example, my mom and my grandmother are from Trinidad and Tobago. They immigrated to the United States to try and create a better life for our family. They did not immigrate illegally, as they took the steps to become US citizens.

I believe that deporting immigrants is unethical because you cannot just uproot someone that wants to give their children a better life. Besides, if their children are born here they are US citizens by default. You risk separating the family, and dismissing their culture. I think we should give them a chance to take the steps to become citizens, and if they do not complete those steps by a certain time, they risk being deported. If they are pressured with their families and lives on the line, they may be more inclined to cooperate with immigration laws. I do believe we should deport those who immigrate for dishonest purposes, such as those who smuggle drugs, or sell things on the black market because these individuals harm society. I also believe there should be laws against people who use marriage dishonestly to become a citizen of a country.

Isaiah Merritt-Harris said...

I agree with what Romain said about the state helping immigrants that are already living in our countries. These people obviously need help learning the immigration laws, and they need help establishing health care, and in some cases---learning the language. There have been illegal immigrants that have been living in the US for years, and still dont speak English.

Gabrielle C. said...

I can agree with Aaron on this one. I think many times and judging from the posts on here that immigrants are used as scapegoats to place blame on the drug problem and welfare system. I know a family who uses the system to their full advantage in every way possible; including lying and cheating and they are not here illegally. I am not very well versed on the issue of illegal immigration but it doesn't make any sense that an illegal can gain from the system without any papers. Also, the drug issue seems quite silly as it is the Americans who are abusing them, which allows for the demand of them. As previously stated, if we cannot keep the drugs out of the country how are we supposed to watch for millions of illegals coming in the country?

Joel Thomas said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Joel Thomas said...

Julio Torres: I agree with the idea of having an immigration index. If the United States were to do a background get among the illegal immigrants. I feel that the would be able to strain out which immigrants are here for the right reasons. Many of the illegal immigrants that the are currently deporting back to their own countries could in fact be an asset to the society of the United States. I feel as though if an immigrant is coming into the United States trying to better themselves or their family then why not let them?

Chantal said...

I was reading an article on how statistically immigrants are included in hospital billing and to trend diseases but cannot get medical help because they are not considered citizens. But like previously said, this is because the hospital doesn't ask for naturalization papers to treat. I founfd it interesting since we were touching on this.

Ben Sigal said...

The issue of immigration, legal or illegal, is no different than the majority of the other topics we have discussed. What I mean by this is that ultimately there is a play on fear by politicians and the media and we are all convinced that we are supporting people who do not "belong" here. Tell me this; who "does" belong here? We have so many modern formalities to get through and deal with that most times it is easier to just go around the system.

Example: There would be no drug trade if there were no people to buy those drugs. Thus it is not the makers and distributors of drugs that I believe are at fault but the consumers who partake of their narcotics.

Similarly, there would be no illegal immigration if we would ease up on the process and fund a new department that was interested in bringing new blood with new ideas into America.

My comparison is that the "idea" that the masses buy into is the reality that often takes place. If we simply decided to move on and not put up walls or hold onto fears then we could move forward on in this Brave New World. However, as long as we continue to roll around in selfishness and the need to justify why we are who we are and not grow, then we are stagnant.

I do not support deportation unless it is of a criminal with serious delinquencies. I had a friend who was from Mexico and was "illegal" though she had lived her the majority of her life. She was pulled over by a sheriff and when she handed him her "papers" she thought for sure that she was going to be arrested and possibly deported. He was a good man though and handed them back with a wink and told her to drive safely. If he had wanted to, he could have followed procedure and had her ousted from the country. Past the good actions of this man, no human should have to live in the fear of being sent away from the only home you have ever known or from your family. She was an assistant manager at the restaurant that I worked at and a productive member of humanity. There should be no concern of her place in this country.

If you want to get to a core value that America has lost over the last century that has weekend us considerably, it would be that we are no longer drawing in the brightest and most favorable from around the world. Instead, we have become a churn of rhetoric and hypothesis; actions never seeing the light of day.

If we had been in this same predictement during WW2 who knows how that would have worked out. The majority of the scientists that enabled us develop technologies that led to victory were from other countries. I'm not saying everyone making a run for the border is the next Einstein or Teller, but how will we ever know if we do not give people a chance?

Thank you!

Margeux said...

This is such a tender subject and I can’t say that I’m decided on either one. Quite a large percentage of the US’s labor source are illegal immigrants who work hard, often working hard than legal Americans. If the US were to deport all of them, the labor sector would surely take a plunge. Most companies, when hiring, require a social security number. Even if they have suspicions about where the person is an immigrant or not, as long as they provide a number, they often let it slide because it’s another person to carry out the company’s work. For the immigrants that do offer a number, they pay social security tax that they will never benefit from (because they would need other supporting documents to prove citizenship when applying for benefits). And as for them “soaking up” welfare, just as I said last week, there’s always going to be people out there abusing the system. I do not think total amnesty is called for, such as our policy with Cuba, but rather some median needs to be found. I understand the deportation side, as well though. Some people see immigrants as taking away from legal American’s jobs, which I can understand, but I think those American’s take that opinion to extremes.

Margeux said...

Ben ~ The story of your friend is touching. It's nice to know nice people still exist in the world, but I'm sure others would see it that the officer aided a criminal. So many of the immigrants are productive members of our society and deserve the right to stay with their families. And as I mentioned in last week's discussion and in my post for this week, there are always going to people, illegal or otherwise, who are going to try and milk the system. So many people just assume immigrants are here just to use up American people's resources, when in fact, most are contributing to our country.

Athena Smith said...

The comments are very interesting and well thought out.

One observation for Vee. Health care is not free anywhere. You are taxed for universal health care. I was having a discussion with my students last week on whether they wished to be taxed for universal health care and half of them said they did. There were some who did not want to pay for any kind of health coverage however. They felt they were young and healthy and their contribution would be wasteful for them.

As far as schooling for illegal immigrants is concerned I found the following wxchange interesting (between Guliani and Romney)

I copy:
The reason for the confusion is, there were three areas in which New York City made an exception. New York City allowed the children of illegal immigrants to go to school. If we didn’t allow the children of illegal immigrants to go to school, we would have had 70,000 children on the streets at a time in which New York City was going through a massive crime wave, averaging 2,000 murders a year, 10,000 felonies a week. The other two exceptions related to care, emergency care, in the hospital and being able to report crimes. If we didn’t allow illegals to report crimes, a lot of criminals would have gone free, because they’re the ones who had the information.

Brandon said...

I grew up in Tucson Arizona which is 45 minutes away from the United States, Mexico border so I feel very acquainted with the issue of "illegal immigration." While I thank immigrants for making America what it is today, our society as a whole decided years ago that when you come to this country you need to go through the proper channels in order to keep the country running. I have been told too many times that Americans are just a bunch of illegal immigrants themselves. While we are immigrants we are not illegal. We traded with the Native Americans or just killed them for their land, either way it's a perfectly valid way of obtaining something. Americans then set up a society where everyone pays taxes to help run things. Illegals come to this country and refuse to play by the established rules. I feel like the heart of the issue of illegal immigration in all countries is that they are taking advantage of a system without contributing back. As far as amnesty or deportation goes, I think that if an illegal immigrant gets caught that they should just work for free until their immigration paper work gets approved and then they can pay the U.S. back for whatever taxes they might have not payed. But as far as Mexico goes, I have been there many times and can tell you it is a horrible country with a corrupt system and corrupt officials. I think all the time Americans spend talking about illegal immigration should be time talking about fixing Mexico so that people won't want or have to leave.

Brandon said...

To Lauren,

I see what you're saying about immigrants taking jobs that normal Americans wouldn't, but the thing is with being an unregistered citizen is that they're not paying any taxes. That is how our branches of government work is through the tax we pay. They're taking advantage of our system without contributing back. If a regular citizen didn't pay taxes they would throw that person in jail. The illegals are no different. It's play by our rules or get out.

Christina said...

Here's the thing with immigration and me, I have a lot of Central American friends are the majority of them are here illegally along with their family. Although they aren't American citizens, they work just as hard as anybody else and in a humanity aspect want we all want, to provide for their family. Now I'm not naive about the entire situation, especially what has speared up in the past few months in regard of immigration, but I do feel that every immigrant isn't a criminal. I actually believe that the majority for the most part are just trying to make a better life for there family. This example isn't a direct relation but it's relative, my grandmother is from Liverpool and she has be living in this country for over 50 years, about a few years ago she finally got permanent residency in the U.S. Here's my thing how does it take so long to gain citizenship. And lets talk about the actual exam immigrants have to take to became citizens. Most Americans can't even pass it. That's another topic. Immigrants specifically central American immigrants are doing jobs that a lot of Americans would dare to do. I don't see what the problem is.

asmith9 said...

How can the U.S. import goods from other countries and then say oh no, your not good enough to stay here? That's pretty messed up!! First of all, this country is not fair when it comes to immigrants because of welfare issues and employment. Citizens in the U.S. are jobless and business owners are more likly to hire a immigrant because they know they can pay them under the table, they pay lower wages and work immigrants twice as hard. I am not for deportation or legalizing immigration. I believe the U.S. always finds a way to benefit from someone elses misfortune.

Sarah M. said...

As much as condone people working hard to have a better life, at the heart of the matter illegal immigration is just that, illegal. I don't know all the ins and outs of obtaining citizenship, but I do know its not impossible. It may be particularly time consuming and complicated, but not impossible. Maybe the solution is to make citizenship more feasible to those with fewer means. The more accessible the right channels are the fewer people will need to be here illegally. Everyone should be allowed the opportunity to prosper, but there's not way to decide who is here doing right and who is here doing wrong; they all have to be lumped into the same category. It would be wonderful if we could grant citizenship to everyone that was making a contribution to society is some way and deport only the ones that are causing trouble, but unfortunately laws are not designed to make that distinction.

yary's blog said...

I think illegal immigration is one of the most important topic and controversies in our actual times. The illegal immigration not only affect our society also our economy and psychological thoughts. We have to understand that our society in the United States is build of immigrants starting in the old times from Ireland, Africans, Spain and other countries. In America one of the biggest controversies is the Mexican immigrant crossing the border to enter to America. In certain part I understand because is not fair for some people that pay taxes, documents and passport that cost a lot of money. In other part I disagree because the government always has the eyes on the Hispanic and not other immigrant cultures. I think we should be all equal and protect each other and help each other instead of killing each other and breaking families that will create anger in the futures generations instead of unity and love.

Preston Guillot said...

I stand in the middle of the arguments on immigration. I believe illegal immigration is a problem in the United States, but I also think it should be easier for an individual to gain United States citizenship. I understand why there are so many people who get angry over illegal immigrants sneaking into the United States so often. However, if the United States is supposedly a "free country", then immigrants should receive a warmer welcome. Every family arrived in this country as immigrants at one point.

Yary replies said...

I agree with you Sarah that sometimes we waste a lot of time in this immigration issue and we do not focus or press attention to other important things that are the consequences of our government actions. I think the United States try to make every culture comfortable and happy even our economy is hurt and struggling that why everybody want to come to America and be free.

Ben Sigal said...

Thank you Marguex! I have found that many, many people like to blame others and say that they are leeches on our society. Funny thing is I have worked with plenty of native-born Americans who would not work or work just a small amount of hours so that they could get their gov benefits still. Pretty dispicable to me, but as I have said before, they represent only some and not all of a population.

Illegals may not pay taxes but that is no reason to disqualify their rights as humans to a better life. It is time to realize that no matter what choices we make their will always be a cost. The decision comes down to do we pay the cost in money or in humanity?

PS. I spelled weakend as weekend in my last post. Sorry!

Thanks everyone!